It's never a bad time to start winning football games.

And for the Seneca Valley and Norwin programs, victories are long overdue.

The Knights have not had a winning season since making the WPIAL Quad A playoffs in 2000. Their two-year record under current coach Dan Conwell is 3-17.

Seneca Valley hasn't tasted postseason play since 2002 and current coach Ron Butschle has gone just 2-18 in his first two seasons with the team.

"They're pretty much in the same boat as we are," said Conwell of the Raiders.

"I think both teams feel they're not the same team that went 1-9 last year," said Butschle. "I look at Norwin on tape and it doesn't look like a 1-9 football team. They played well in scrimmages against North Hills and Baldwin."

The teams will bring similar styles of play when they open the 2006 season with a 7:30 p.m. kickoff Friday at Norwin's stadium.

"We run similar offenses," said Butschle. "And they use a 4-4 base defense just like us."

Both teams will be looking for performances to build on from their quarterback.

Norwin senior J.T. Redshaw (5-foot-10, 170 pounds) started a few games in 2004 due to an injury to the team's starting quarterback, but will have to prove himself worthy again this season.

He will have two starters coming back on the outside in wideouts Chris Keba and Michael Salopek.

"You can't coach experience," Conwell said. "And any time you have experience coming back at the skill positions, it's a big plus for the team."

The first pass Seneca Valley quarterback Ted Pynos attempts Friday will be his first in nearly two years.

And Butschle made it clear that there will be no undue pressure placed on his shoulders.

"Ted has done a great job of taking control of the team in practice," he said. "But we don't expect any one player to go out and win us football games."

Norwin, which competes in the Quad South Conference, also has two players who could see a significant number of carries against SV's defense.

Senior tailback Dan Kozak, who rushed for more than 700 yards last season, returns along with junior fullback Tyler Urban.

At 6-foot-4, 235 pounds, Urban brings more quickness and size to the position than most fullbacks.

"He's more known as a linebacker," said Conwell of Urban. "But he did see time last year at fullback."

It will be a good test for a Seneca Valley defense trying to improve on last year's performance. In 2005, the Raiders surrendered 183.5 rushing yards per game and 5.1 yards per attempt.

Conwell sees in the Raiders a team that moves well on offense and defense.

"Based on the two tapes we saw, the biggest thing about them is that they're very aggressive on both sides of the ball," he said.

For two programs anxious to field a winning football team, there is no such thing as an exhibition game.

"Any time you play only nine games in a season, every win is important," said Conwell. "Especially in the first game, you want to get off on the right foot."

"We need to go into our Quad North schedule (Week 5) with more than one win for our kids to feel confident in what we're doing," said Butschle. "I'd say we're ahead of where we were at this time the last two years. Our practices have been pretty intense."

Friday's game will mark the first-ever meeting between Seneca Valley and Norwin.

<B>Friday 7:30 p.m.</B>• <B>Streak:</B> The Raiders will attempt to win their first season opener since defeating McKeesport 35-7 in 2002.• <B>Statistic:</B> Since taking over as SV head coach in 2004, Ron Butschle is 2-4 in non-conference games.• <B>Speaking:</B> "We were able to work on some changes in our defensive and special teams coverages over the summer. Because of that, I'd say we're ahead of where we were this time the last two years." — Seneca Valley coach Ron Butschle