High school basketball state championships are hard to come by - perhaps too hard for public schools.

Such is the argument of Karns City superintendent of schools Larry Henry and Lewistown High School girls basketball coach Kevin Kodish.

The two have been working together over the past few years on proposals to change the PIAA's current system of having public and private school basketball teams competing against each other in the state playoffs.

"There are inequities in the system that need to be changed," Henry said. "Private schools comprise only 20 percent of PIAA membership, yet won five of the eight state basketball titles this year.

"This is a trend that's been going on for a few years now."

Private schools won all four PIAA girls basketball titles this year and one boys title. Private schools have won 80 percent of the girls titles over the past five years.

Two years ago, Henry and Kodish submitted a proposal to the PIAA that would place private and public schools in separate postseason tournaments.

"That was turned away because the association feared being sued by private schools being forced to play in a separate tournament," Henry said.

Henry and Kodish submitted an amended proposal last week that would give public and private schools the option of playing in a postseason tournament strictly among their own or against a mixture of public and private schools.

In essence, there would be three state tournaments - one private, one public and one private-public combination.

Teams would be classified by size of school in relation to the number of teams that entered each respective tournament.

"Give schools their freedom of choice of who they want to compete against," Henry said. "That's the idea."

PIAA executive director Brad Cashman received that proposal Tuesday - the day before a scheduled meeting of the association's basketball steering committee.

"I shared that proposal with the committee and it was unanimously voted down," Cashman said. "Trying to separate (private and public school teams) would throw the PIAA back 33 years."

Cashman referred to 1973, the year the General Assembly ordered the PIAA to accept private schools into its membership.

"We need to isolate this issue for what it is," Cashman said. "This is a basketball-only problem. That's the only sport where as few as five athletes on the court can determine a team's success.

"Having separate tournaments would only put a band-aid on the problem. The perception is that (private school) recruiting goes on. The reality is that geographic boundaries are much larger for private schools than for public schools.

"That's what needs to be addressed and we are in the process of doing that," Cashman added.

Cashman said geographic boundaries of eligibility need to "become more even than they are" but added no such plan to do so has been developed.

Former Butler and current Bethel Park girls basketball coach Jonna Burke said that making suich boundaries more balanced "would be a big step toward solving this problem."

"You look at a public school's roster and all of the players have addresses within that school's district, obviously," Burke said. "Look at a private school's roster and the addresses are from all over Western Pennsylvania.

"Some of these kids are driving 45 minutes to an hour to go to school each day. That's ridiculous."

Lewistown has been the last PIAA Class AAA public school standing the past three years in the girls basketball state playoffs, but has no state title to show for it.

Union's girls have been knocked out of the PIAA Class A tournament the past three seasons by a different private school each time: Serra Catholic, Bishop Carroll and Kennedy Catholic.

"I don't think a board of directors should be deciding this issue," Kodish said. "The PIAA is a voluntary member organization. Put our proposal to vote among the member schools statewide and see how it turns out."

Burke-coached teams have lost to Class AAAA power Oakland Catholic in the postseason six times in the past five years.

Oakland Catholic has played in seven consecutive WPIAL championship games and three of the past five PIAA state title contests.

"They have three Division I recruits graduating this year and the other two starters will be Division I players," Burke said of Oakland Catholic. "That's not a high school. That's an all-star team. They rotate in 11 players and don't miss a beat.

"No public school can come close to doing that. They're like a machine. It's just not fair.

"Players aren't perfect, but you're asking them to play a perfect game to beat them. Some people say any team can't be any other team … That's not going to happen," Burke added.

Union coach Josh Meeker agrees there is a problem with the current system and would like to see the PIAA adopt the basketball playoff system used in New Jersey and Maryland.

In those states, public and private schools compete in the same leagues and against each other during the regular season, then compete in separate postseason tournaments.

The private school champion faces the public school champion for the overall state title.

"At least everyone gets a fair shot that way," Meeker said. "Five teams go to the state tournament out of District 9 and our district doesn't have many private schools, so we're not affected that much.

"Some districts across the state get only two or three state entries and they're almost always private schools. Some public schools never even get a chance."

A congratulatory sign along a road in Rimersburg refers to Union's girls basketball team as the best public school in Western Pennsylvania.

"They should have an award, some type of acknowledgement that shows that," Henry argued.

Cashman said an overlooked element in the consistent success of Catholic high school girls basketball programs is the Catholic Youth Organization (CYO) elementary program.

"There is years of tradition there, girls starting to play competitive, organized basketball in third or fourth grade," he said. "Those players are learning the fundamentals at a very young age.

"Public school programs are beginning to catch up in that regard, but there is a way to go."

Henry said he and Kodish will continue to build support for their proposal of three tournaments.

"We may do a presentation at District 9's annual meeting and take it to other districts," Henry said. "There's nothing wrong with multiple state champions. Why not let more kids experience what that feels like? It doesn't diminish anything."