Determining Butler County nonunion salaries continues to be a source of debate.

The county salary board on Wednesday discussed proposed changes to the pay grades for some posts and setting grades for posts not yet addressed.

The Archer Company, which conducted a salary study the county uses to set pay grades for nonunion posts, proposed seven posts, mainly court-related, be elevated a grade.

County Controller Ben Holland, who sits on the salary board, questioned the continued changes to pay grades.

Holland said both Archer and the respective department or office needs to provide rationales for any proposed changes.

“Some of these, in my estimation, could not be substantiated,” he said.

Holland also criticized anyone in county government circumventing the salary board to contact Archer.

“The board needs to act as a filter,” he said.

County solicitor Mike English confirmed Archer was contacted directly.

“Some folks took a more aggressive approach,” English said.

Although no one confirmed who contacted Archer directly, county Commissioner Leslie Osche corrected Holland when he referred to the category of department heads.

Osche said the culprit would be among row officers.

County staff falls under one of three auspices: the commissioners and their department heads, elected row officers or county court.

For jobs under the three commissioners' purview, they and Holland get salary board votes.

The respective row officer receives a vote for jobs in that office. County President Judge Thomas Doerr has a vote for court positions.

Holland said the situation is out of control.

“Somewhere, you got to draw a line in the sand,” he said.

Holland said he only approved use of the salary study because it was better than having no guide, but more problems are arising.

“It's quickly unraveling,” he said.

English advised the board to do one of two things: treat every post the same under the set pay ranges or abandon the study.

He said not applying evaluations and re-evaluations equally courts legal ramifications.

“You're asking for trouble,” English said.

Tom Holman, deputy court administrator, requested a discussion on hiring policy on behalf of Doerr that would affect court posts.

He said the judge believes he should be able to fill posts at the same salary being paid to the people who leave.

The salary board wants new hires to be at the bottom of the pay scales.

Commissioner Kevin Boozel, speaking by phone from another location, said setting a different policy for court staff would be creating inconsistency.

Holman pointed out court staff commonly falls under different rules as the court is a different branch of government.

Boozel disagreed that was the correct approach, saying there was no need to change hiring policy just for court personnel.

“It's a little premature to say it's a necessary item,” he said.

English said any changes to hiring policy needs to be done across the board.

“I think you're in or out on these policies,” he said.

English conceded Doerr has legitimate concerns about transferring staff from a union job to a supervisory nonunion post, which leads to those staff having to take a pay cut to accept a promotion.

“This is not Chicken Little,” English said. “This is not something the judge invented.”

Holland said if this change is made, then the policy based on the study is moot.

“You've basically scrapped the policy,” he said.

The salary board's voting meeting is set for Wednesday.