PITTSBURGH - Welcome to the land of the lost.

The Pittsburgh Pirates, one of baseball's pre-eminent franchises in the 1970s and not that long ago in the early 1990s, have become a symbol for everything that is wrong in their sport during a club-record 12 consecutive losing seasons.

Their estimated $35 million payroll is almost identical to that of the Barry Bonds-led Pirates of 1992 and is about one-sixth that of the Yankees. The farm system turned out far too few players for far too many years. Free agency hasn't helped much - the joke among player agents is that if you want to play for free, play for the Pirates.

Ha ha. Chuckle chuckle. After averaging 91 losses the last five seasons, the Pirates are good mostly for laughs and a lot of victories for opposing clubs.

Pardon Jack Wilson, Craig Wilson, Jason Bay and Oliver Perez for not getting the joke.

They're not proclaiming the Pirates ready to eliminate their 32½-game gap in the standings with the NL Central champion Cardinals, but each sees something few others outside their clubhouse do.

Hope.

Perez, 23, sees it after an exceptional and perhaps overlooked season that saw him go 12-10 with a 2.98 ERA and 239 strikeouts, the third most in club history.

"He can be something special," said Lloyd McClendon, who realizes how important this season is to his career after going 281-365 in his first four seasons as manager.

Jack Wilson, a career .246 hitter until last season, hit .308 in 2004 and his 201 hits matched original Hall of Famer Honus Wagner for the most by a Pirates shortstop.

And while he struck out a club-record 169 times, Craig Wilson displayed enough power (29 homers, 82 RBI) to make the Pirates think he's got more to give. He doesn't think that improvement will be limited to him, not after a 72-89 season that saw the Pirates break in 11 rookies as the majors' youngest team.

"It's starting to get where we're getting a little closer," Wilson said.

Bay, the first NL rookie of the year in Pirates history, sees similar signs.

"Obviously we play in a tough division, but we've just go to go out there and compete," Bay said. "Hopefully, in the next year or two, we're going to turn the corner."

But how much closer can the Pirates get, given the vast payroll disparity between them and division powers St. Louis, Houston and Chicago - and even some of the other have-nots, such as the Reds?

The Pirates' payroll could be $20 million to $25 million below that of Cincinnati, which finished only 3½ games ahead of them last season. That represents the single-season salaries of five quality everyday players - and, too, the financial disadvantage the Pirates must deal with on an ever-widening basis.

"But if everyone stays healthy, we're going to have just as good a chance as the Reds at $60 million or the Astros at $80 million - I really don't think that payroll means you're going to have a better record," Craig Wilson said. "You might have a couple of different players, but it doesn't mean you're going to have a better team."

The Pirates' major offseason move was financially motivated as they dealt nine-year veteran catcher Jason Kendall to Oakland, saving about $15 million over the next three seasons. In return, they got left-hander starter Mark Redman (11-12, 4.71 ERA) and, after another deal, outfielder Matt Lawton, who figures to replace Kendall as their leadoff hitter.

The Pirates' strengths appear to be an above-average top of the batting order with 2004 All-Stars Lawton and Jack Wilson followed by Bay and Craig Wilson; a deep bullpen, a much-better bench than last season and adequate starting pitching.

The left-handed Perez looks to be a star in the making, as long as he stays healthy. The Pirates spent much of last season smoothing out his delivery to eliminate mechanical flaws that could lead to arm trouble.

To bring their staff along, the Pirates dealt for 40-year-old catcher Benito Santiago, who is considered to be a strong handler of pitchers. He needs to be, if spring training is any indication; right-handers Kip Wells and Josh Fogg and left-handers Redman and Dave Williams all got whacked around regularly.

The Pirates' deficiencies, and they appear to be many, include little power below the No. 5 spot in their order, an occasionally sloppy defense, the lack of a starting pitcher who has won more than 12 games - and, too, a track record of losing that creates low expectations.

"It's not a position you like to be in, but that's the reality of it and it plays to our advantage," Bay said. "That's one less thing you have to worry about dealing with."